This podcast was produced for Revive Environmental by Scientific American Custom Media, a division separate from the magazine’s editorial board.
In this interview with David Trueba, President and CEO of Revive Environmental, we discuss how scientists are tackling the challenge of tackling the so-called “forever chemicals” PFAS. These widely used chemicals known to persist in the environment pose potential threats to human health.
Transcription:
Megan Hall: They are found in shampoos, carpets, nonstick pans, fast food wrappers, and more. It has also been found on the summit of Mount Everest. This group of chemicals, called PFASs, are ubiquitous, and high exposure to them can increase your risk of everything from some cancers to infertility. What do we do with these so-called eternal chemicals?
Scientific American Custom Media recently sat down with Revive Environmental President and CEO David Trueba to learn more about this problem and possible solutions.
David Truba fell in love with chemistry in middle school.
David Truba: We were lucky to have Mrs. Travers as our chemistry teacher.
hole: Mrs. Travers, he says, made him obsessed with combining substances to create new substances and solving problems.
truth: And, funny enough, she actually worked for the EPA.
hole: So as a chemist, he actually has a deep respect for chemicals, including the coatings they use on nonstick pans.
truth: Honestly, I think Teflon as a story is really great. It happened by chance. Completely effective, isn’t it?
hole: What began as a Teflon-like product in the late 1930s is now a group of over 9,000 chemicals called PFAS (perfluoroalkyl and polyfluoroalkyl substances).
truth: And the purpose is to extinguish fires, prevent things from sticking, and help produce many of the products that we as a society around the world really take for granted.
hole: One of the reasons these PFASs are effective is because their chemical bonds are incredibly strong.
truth: That is why they are called eternal chemicals. They are designed to be indestructible. The elegance of this chemical is that it stays on permanently and can be applied to a wide variety of surfaces. Once healed, it will not move. The problem is they last forever.
hole: And they can have serious health consequences.
truth: So long exposure has real problems. Cancer, reproductive problems, growth and malformations, birth defects. These are real situations people have probably experienced over the last 30+ years.
hole: So what about the harmful, indestructible chemicals found in hundreds of products? Many consumers use activated carbon filters to filter PFAS from their water.
truth: Think of the Brita water filter. It traps contaminants and keeps your water smelling and tasting positive.
hole: However, carbon sponges made from materials such as wood, coconut shells, coal, and peat eventually reach their capacity for use and must be discarded. Afterwards, David said, they are sent to landfills, buried deep underground, or burned in incinerators. But that doesn’t mean he’s PFAS-free.
truth: You’re moving the problem from its source back into the environment.
hole: Remember these are chemicals forever. It’s still soaked into the sponge. There is even debate as to whether burning is effective.
truth: A lot of science is currently being researched regarding incineration. I do not represent the incineration industry. All I can say is PFAS rain fell from the sky in the summer of 2021.
hole: that’s not good. So scientists and engineers started working on a different approach.
truth: Our founding company, Battelle Memorial Institute, saw PFAS as a challenge five years ago and commissioned a group of the world’s best scientists to come up with ways to deal with PFAS.
hole: They designed a process that uses extreme heat and energy to treat PFAS-contaminated water.
truth: Our reactors exceed 374 degrees Celsius and exceed 3,000 PSI. It’s a lot of pressure. So-called supercritical water is produced.
hole: When water is in its supercritical state, it is both a liquid and a gas. It gives it a unique power.
truth: It completely dissolves oxygen in the air and completely dissolves all solvents and all ions.
hole: David says dissolved oxygen attaches to PFAS and destroys it.
truth: That is, dirty black water comes in and clean water comes out. And there are only two by-products. Clean water and salt.
hole: They decided to call the closure system that makes this possible the PFAS Annihilator.
truth: I think it’s an apt name because annihilation is what really happens. No trace of the PFAS molecule remains.
hole: Other companies use the same approach to destroy PFAS or treat toxic sludge, but David says Annihilator is faster.
truth: Depending on the technology, this could take hours. It will be completed within 10 seconds.
hole: And David said the Annihilator is already in use in the field, treating PFAS-contaminated liquids 24/7.
truth: Revive just launched its first commercial-scale unit in Michigan, which is now live. We are currently destroying PFAS.
hole: The company also offers products that treat carbon sponges that filter PFAS from water. David says it can be done…
truth: It extracts the PFAS from the carbon and leaves the carbon there, making the carbon’s PFAS capture more effective. And we’re all doing it for less than it costs to emit and dispose of carbon dioxide, and it lasts four times as long.
hole: David is optimistic about his company’s efforts to treat PFAS. Over the next two years, he hopes to deliver 25 of his PFAS Annihilators across North America. But he says there is still much work to be done.
truth: First of all, we really need to look at our infrastructure, why we’re using PFAS today, and if we’re replacing materials.
hole: Because if the industry stopped using PFAS in their products, there would be less need to clean them up. But for that we need an alternative to them.
truth: Even just targeting PFAS replacement presents a very interesting scientific opportunity.
hole: David said the scientific community could also collaborate on other PFAS challenges. Chemicals are difficult to detect at low concentrations.
truth: Health advisory limits are expressed in parts per thousand trillion. One trillionth is equivalent to a drop of water in an Olympic-size swimming pool. 1 in 1000 trillion is 1 in 1,000 of that. Currently, it is not possible to detect less than 1 in a trillion.
hole: David also welcomes support in his area of expertise in removing PFAS from the environment.
truth: How do we address the PFAS that already exist? And extracting and remediating soil, managing drinking water at source, and eliminating recycling challenges, these are all opportunities we can avoid and help our communities. PFAS can be extracted, removed or eliminated from
hole: David says he is still in awe of PFAS. These are chemical marvels, but their practical indestructibility proved to be a drawback.
truth: Today’s innovation may be tomorrow’s challenge. We do our best with what we know.
hole: David says he was inspired to stand on the shoulders of the scientists who developed PFAS and address the challenges they created. That’s what his chemistry teacher, Mrs. Travers, would have wanted.
David Trueba is President and CEO of Revive Environmental.
Revive Environmental is a full-service environmental pollutant abatement company with a mission to rid America of PFAS-contaminated water. This podcast was produced by Scientific American Custom Media and made possible with support from Revive Environmental.
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